Clausen vs. Crist
Posted by my Man SLT who would never, ever root for the Jets....
Top shelf son, don't be afraid next time to blog this.
Posted by SouthLakeTom; Since I was up at 3:30 this morning and it was literally too early to do anything, I thought it would be a good time to republish this post.
While evaluating QB’s was never my responsibility, I still had to learn how to do it, especially for our weekly advance book for the defense. I’m sure everybody hear knows the terminology, and without making this too long winded, and like a scouting report, I will try and cut it down a little bit.
Unless you have been under the knife or studying the WTC bombings the past year, you know how I feel about Clausen and Crist.
There are two films I will use when I do this critique:
A: Jimmy Clausen:
B: Dayne Crist:
It’s imperative to watch these two clips several times, before, during and after reading this.
One of the most important elements of the QB postion is footwork. I value footwork over arm strength and accuracy for several reasons. Mainly b/c poor footwork can led to bad mechanics, which effects the arm strength and accuracy. You won’t find may QB’s who can have poor footwork but are accurate in their throws and can throw a crisp ball.
Footwork:
When I watch JC, I notice several things. The first one is how he is overly dependent in his gate and throwing position. He is very deliberate in his posture. (SLT: WTF are you talking about?) Ok, scroll to his video and watch how he gathers his feet before he throws. Do you see how his feet in his shuffle/slide are prolonged and how he uses a “jump-step” to get his feet back under him before he starts his throw. Yes, I know he and Dayne both have had the same QB’s coach, but scroll to Dayne’s clip and watch how he keeps his feet under him (shoulder’s width) through the slide, gather, and release. Look at the difference in the time they each take to throw the ball. Use a stop watch if you want.
Now, I understand that the past two years, our Oline has been less than average, but how many of those sacks were due to the oline, or were they due to JC’s inability to get a ball off b/c of the length of time he takes to get set and go through the motions?
Release Point:
JC and DC have identical mechanics as to where they keep the football. However, refer back to the clips above and watch how different they are in their release. Once again, JC is mechanical, and if you slow it down, you can see that several processes take place, in order before he releases the ball. DC has a single process that involves his feet, his trunk rotation, through his release. This single motion allows DC to not telegraph his pass, as where JC telegraphs his pass through his mechanics.
You don’t have to be a Jets fan to see how much faster DC’s release is compared to JC’s. It speaks for itself, and he has a freak like ability that very few possess.
Arm Strength:
Both these guys have strong Arm’s, but check out the 20-25yd pass and the angle of the ball as it is delivered to the receiver. JC’s ball has the nose dipping upon arrival, as DC’s is still on a plane and parallel to the field. The receiver has more ball to work with here in regards to catching it, and the ball takes less time to get from point A to point B.
Summary:
In my opinion, DC has better fundamentals and mechanics than JC, however JC has the experience. The goal here is for the Irish to win, and in order to win right now, we need JC to be the guy. We need him to succeed, and we need him to lead and be productive. Not only productive for Notre Dame, but for himself. We need him to show up on the drsft radar. This is huge for us. The more guys we put in the league, the better our recruiting ability is, and the better we can market our program.
We have a NFL head coach, we have NFL asst. coaches, we have put guys in the league in the past, but the last two years we have been less than mediocre and our Notre Dame to NFL pipeline has been in a drought.
I will be rooting for JC this year, and as of right now, he is our guy.
Here is the discussion thread
http://www.bluegoldnation.com/forums...-vs-crist.html
Top shelf son, don't be afraid next time to blog this.
Posted by SouthLakeTom; Since I was up at 3:30 this morning and it was literally too early to do anything, I thought it would be a good time to republish this post.
While evaluating QB’s was never my responsibility, I still had to learn how to do it, especially for our weekly advance book for the defense. I’m sure everybody hear knows the terminology, and without making this too long winded, and like a scouting report, I will try and cut it down a little bit.
Unless you have been under the knife or studying the WTC bombings the past year, you know how I feel about Clausen and Crist.
There are two films I will use when I do this critique:
A: Jimmy Clausen:
B: Dayne Crist:
It’s imperative to watch these two clips several times, before, during and after reading this.
One of the most important elements of the QB postion is footwork. I value footwork over arm strength and accuracy for several reasons. Mainly b/c poor footwork can led to bad mechanics, which effects the arm strength and accuracy. You won’t find may QB’s who can have poor footwork but are accurate in their throws and can throw a crisp ball.
Footwork:
When I watch JC, I notice several things. The first one is how he is overly dependent in his gate and throwing position. He is very deliberate in his posture. (SLT: WTF are you talking about?) Ok, scroll to his video and watch how he gathers his feet before he throws. Do you see how his feet in his shuffle/slide are prolonged and how he uses a “jump-step” to get his feet back under him before he starts his throw. Yes, I know he and Dayne both have had the same QB’s coach, but scroll to Dayne’s clip and watch how he keeps his feet under him (shoulder’s width) through the slide, gather, and release. Look at the difference in the time they each take to throw the ball. Use a stop watch if you want.
Now, I understand that the past two years, our Oline has been less than average, but how many of those sacks were due to the oline, or were they due to JC’s inability to get a ball off b/c of the length of time he takes to get set and go through the motions?
Release Point:
JC and DC have identical mechanics as to where they keep the football. However, refer back to the clips above and watch how different they are in their release. Once again, JC is mechanical, and if you slow it down, you can see that several processes take place, in order before he releases the ball. DC has a single process that involves his feet, his trunk rotation, through his release. This single motion allows DC to not telegraph his pass, as where JC telegraphs his pass through his mechanics.
You don’t have to be a Jets fan to see how much faster DC’s release is compared to JC’s. It speaks for itself, and he has a freak like ability that very few possess.
Arm Strength:
Both these guys have strong Arm’s, but check out the 20-25yd pass and the angle of the ball as it is delivered to the receiver. JC’s ball has the nose dipping upon arrival, as DC’s is still on a plane and parallel to the field. The receiver has more ball to work with here in regards to catching it, and the ball takes less time to get from point A to point B.
Summary:
In my opinion, DC has better fundamentals and mechanics than JC, however JC has the experience. The goal here is for the Irish to win, and in order to win right now, we need JC to be the guy. We need him to succeed, and we need him to lead and be productive. Not only productive for Notre Dame, but for himself. We need him to show up on the drsft radar. This is huge for us. The more guys we put in the league, the better our recruiting ability is, and the better we can market our program.
We have a NFL head coach, we have NFL asst. coaches, we have put guys in the league in the past, but the last two years we have been less than mediocre and our Notre Dame to NFL pipeline has been in a drought.
I will be rooting for JC this year, and as of right now, he is our guy.
Here is the discussion thread
http://www.bluegoldnation.com/forums...-vs-crist.html
Total Comments 7
Comments
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c
dPosted 08-10-2009 at 09:40 AM by Unregistered
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"I value footwork over arm strength and accuracy for several reasons."
what's the point of great footwork if you don't have accuracy or arm strength? bad premisePosted 08-10-2009 at 10:00 AM by Unregistered
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At this level, you don't see QB's that lack accuracy or arm strength. They never make it. Foot work can either help or hinder your mechanics.Posted 08-10-2009 at 01:16 PM by SouthLakeTom
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critique ?
i think clausen will have a huge year for us, and i also think the future is extremely bright for crist. maybe crist will prove to be better than clausen once he's through two years as a starter, only time will tell, but there's no question clausen is the best quarterback on the team right now. again, maybe crist will prove to be a better quarterback once he gets his opportunity to lead our team. we'll simply have to wait and see.
i'm so anxious for the season to begin that i'll even waste time reading nonsense material like this "critique." right now, i'm starving for anything related to ND football; the nevada game can't get here soon enough.
...but back to this clausen vs crist comparison. i think it's laughable that anyone with an internet connection and youtube access thinks they can break down "film." you exposed your lack of credibility by directing us to the youtube footage and breaking down crist's "superior footwork" in comparison to clausen.
i took at look at the clips you wanted us to watch. crist takes all but one of his snaps from the shotgun. the one snap he does take from under center, he gathers himself with a final hop-step deep in the pocket, just as you point out clausen does, before he's flushed to his right, i believe [around 1:45 ? ], and makes a beautiful throw on the run.
i agree, footwork is incredibly important to a quarterback's ability to deliver an accurate ball on time ...but let's not pretend you're able to speak with any authority on this. crist takes all but one of his snaps from the shotgun. maybe his footwork is indeed better, but your not going to be able to tell from the clip you "analyzed."
go irish
steve class of '97Posted 08-10-2009 at 08:19 PM by Unregistered
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Steve,
Thanks for taking the time to comment.
In a perfect world, I would have a DVS system, Dartfish software, and a cowboy remote with hours of film.
I have seen both play live in person, and those clips I did find are not the only reason for my opinion. Are the clips bad? Yes. I looked around and I can't find anything that would have painted a better picture. If you can point me in the direction of some better film, then let me know.
I can handle that you don't agree w/ my critique or opinion, so I'm interested in seeing what you see. Maybe you have more experience than I do, or maybe you have a better eye.
There is a lot more information and back and forth in the forum. If you get a chance take a look and chime in.
Thanks.Posted 08-10-2009 at 09:40 PM by SouthLakeTom
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comparison
SLT,
First of all the nuances you picked out show a level of understanding of the game and of the QB position that the average fan isn't going to see.
Having played the position at the college level, albeit a long time ago let me add a comment or two. As far as footwork goes I don't see alot of difference between the two. I found instances in both clips where both JC and DC used a hop step to gather and throw and also instances where they were able to just plant and throw. Alot of whether that happens, from my experience, depends on the play call and what level of a read the qb has to make. If you look at the simple reads like the slant you will see both JC and DC able to make the read plant and make that throw. On the opening throw JC in the tape you see him step up to throw. Without knowing the play call and seeing the whole field is he just slow as suggested or has he made the read inside, seen it covered and then needed the time to deliver the ball outside?
I am impressed by DC's ability to stand and throw, but it is tough to judge from a HS level tape where it looks like the first receiver in alot the plays is open and gets the ball. If he can duplicate this this balance and delivery at this level it will be a great thing.
Last comment - you are right on as far as JC's "telegraphing" a bit, most times when he is making the long hard throw. I'll take that flaw anyday to go with his ability to throw the deep soft touch ball. Not too many college qb's throw the fade as well as he does. This is easily the toughest throw in the book and there are days he makes it look way to easy.Posted 08-10-2009 at 10:19 PM by rbmat
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Steve:
Thanks again...
What do you think about the two's release's?Posted 08-11-2009 at 01:58 PM by SouthLakeTom
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